Serving the Underserved: Championing Financial Independence for Women and the LGBTQ+ Community

Joanna Ehresman [00:00:10]:

Hi there. Thanks for joining us. I'm Joanna Ehresman. And I'm Leah Alter. And this is Women Share, a marketing guide for women In financial services.

Leah Alter [00:00:20]:

We are lucky enough today to not have 1 but 2 amazing guests on Women's Thank you, Kathy and Kerry of Fish and Associates for joining us. Based in Memphis, Tennessee, Fish and Associates serves Women, the LGBTQ plus community, and young professionals, Kathy entered the financial services industry in 90 and went out on her own with 2 other advisers in 1992 and started her own firm, Fish and Associates, in 1997. She She is a certified yoga instructor who took a 2 month sabbatical to ride across the US last year. She loves helping people live the best life possible with what they have and is passionate about empowering women to make wise financial choices that help them accomplish the things that are most important to them. Kerry says her career in financial planning really chose her instead of the other way around. Kerry is a partner and director of financial planning at Fish and Associates. Driven by her passion for helping people alleviate anxiety and uncertainty, she fell in love with the integrated financial plan planning process. Her mom, Kathy, is her partner and mentor.

Leah Alter [00:01:36]:

And in addition to managing the day to day tasks of financial planning. She also oversees the client services staff. She specializes in In serving the firm's young professional clients, providing them with financial planning services, and investment guidance. I've had the pleasure of knowing and working with both Kathy and Kerry for many, many years, and in many ways Have inspired a lot of the work that I have done for the past 12 years with advisers. So excited to have you here. Welcome to Women's Share.

Kathy Fish [00:02:11]:

Thank you. We're thrilled to be here.

Kerry Jackson [00:02:14]:

Yes. Very excited.

Joanna Ehresman [00:02:15]:

And we were talking about the fact you have the honor of being our 1st duo, as guests. So so excited to have this combination and and hear your story. So, Kathy, let's start with you. Tell us a little bit about Fish and Associates, the type of clients you serve, the size of your firm, and any focus areas.

Kathy Fish [00:02:32]:

Well, as as Leah said in the bio, I started in this industry in 1990. So I've been at it almost 34 years, and, we We have 4 employees currently and just hired a a para planner, so there will be 5 of us. We are very much focused on financial planning. So every client we bring in, we start with a plan. We serve a lot of preretirees as well as retirees, but our focus, I think just because of my own personal situation when I started, has focused on women and empowering women, to take control of their financial lives. We focus on working with women as well as, Working in the LGBTQ plus community, being from, I'm actually from New York, but I've lived in Memphis most of my adult life. And, the being in the south, is can be a little challenging for the LGBTQ Q community, and we had clients in that area and decided to focus on that area because it was A a group of people we felt were very underserved in our community. You know, people would shy away from certain firms just because they didn't think they would be accepted.

Kathy Fish [00:03:59]:

So that's been great for us. And then when Kerry started, she wanted to start a young professional program, which, you know, was a subscription based model, and she's done an amazing job with that. So that's kind of High level focus, and, you know, we don't have we serve probably a 150 clients At at this point, we we have capacity for growth, but we, intentionally wanted to be more of a boutique firm.

Leah Alter [00:04:29]:

Yeah. I love that. And that was one of the first things about you guys that I just loved was this this Love and appreciation for the underserved that are weren't getting the financial advice and and serve service that they needed. So, Keri, when you joined the firm, how did things evolve to include both, you know, a more robust Financial planning for all the clients as well as your desire to serve young professionals that you're focused on.

Kerry Jackson [00:05:01]:

Thankfully, Kathy's always been ahead of the curve pretty much from the start. So she was already doing planning when I got there, back in 2010, but one of the great Complimentary strikes about the 2 of us is she's a lot more high level, big picture, and I really love to, like, dig into the details. So where I really wanted to Step in and make a difference to the existing process was just systematizing it so that it could be really repeatable for anyone in the firm, not only for myself, But any other planners that we may train, and so that we could just get people through the process as efficiently as possible. I spent a lot of Time, really honing the steps, adjusting them for changes in the industry and things that are relevant to our clientele, And then also allowing space for them to be super customizable because I think we serve very specific types of clients. But When it comes to our base, it's it's quite broad where age, gender, income objectives are concerned, so that customization's Really important as well. We want everyone to feel like they're getting an individualized plan. And then as for the young professionals, when I Passed my CFP exam back in 2013. I was only 28 years old, so I was still quite young.

Kerry Jackson [00:06:16]:

And I was in the same place Mentally and financially, there's a lot of people in my generation just trying to figure out what I should be doing to make my life comfortable and fun. You know? Seeing my mom live her best life for many, many years was a pretty big motivator. I've always had people coming up to me telling me they wanted to be Kathy Fish when they grew up. Absolutely. Absolutely. So happy not to follow. Like, that was a big motivator. You know? I really I didn't.

Kerry Jackson [00:06:45]:

I knew personally I did not want the type of retirement where you just work with your head down for 40 years and then start enjoying yourself. And my my peers, People in my generation and those after, we don't want that either. So I knew I had to find an approach to planning that really balanced the importance of the long term planning, but that made room to enjoy yourself now and meet those shorter term goals like traveling or starting a family or being an entrepreneur. So as Kathy said, I started with that based plan, and I still use it to this day. I've had a lot of success with it, a lot of loyalty. Most people that get in don't leave, But I have had people start and stop as their life gets you know, they think it's not complicated, but then they get engaged, and then they circle back. And and then sometimes I've just had people where I've just really worked with them steadfastly on things they're not as great at, like cash flow habits, and then It's kinda like coaching a swimmer. They get good enough to go off on their own, and you they they go off.

Kerry Jackson [00:07:43]:

You know? So it's it's been a lot of Fun and really rewarding, and the education is is a big part of that. So I think that's part of the reason it's been really successful.

Joanna Ehresman [00:07:52]:

That's such an interesting start in such a Cool way that you 2 have brought that together, like building off of your individual strengths and stage of life. Right? And bringing that to your clients. It seems very Authentic and organic, and I can see why people would be drawn to that. So, Kathy, Leah told me you went through a pretty significant rebrand a few years back, and it Helped you to grow because you found it clarified your message and attracted the right clients. So can you tell us about the process And what results have you seen? Just give us the overview of what you did and and what it's led to.

Kathy Fish [00:08:26]:

Yeah. It it was One of the best processes I've been through in my career. I was really forced to to take a deep dive into the the kind of clients we were serving. With my research, I discovered that 85% of our clients Came in through the female of the relationship, and we we realized that our whole process of Educating people and not making people feel like they didn't know what they were doing. You know? Often, Nothing. I I know many, many male advisers, but they tend to do more telling than asking when it comes to the planning process. That was another discovery that I made just from talking to some of our clients. And so I knew that They focusing on women was important.

Kathy Fish [00:09:21]:

I didn't realize how much of our business had come in that way. And, again, we serve a lot of males, but I I've just had experience with women whether they were, you know, single, married, divorced. They want a plan, and they wanna know where they're going. They want a road map. So, you know, we knew we We were on the right track with how we were focusing on that. As far as the, LGBTQ community, when we were going through Gathering all our data. We had a gay couple come in and I asked them why they chose our firm. And she said, Kathy, You're known around town as the place to go for the LGBT community.

Kathy Fish [00:10:08]:

I'm like, oh, it was an epiphany. So, We decided to focus on that area, and we felt it was really important. There's so many firms that have minimums as far as assets under management. We felt it was important to reach the younger generation, people that were young professionals that were, you know, had good habits or wanted to create good habits, so it had to be a fit. So we had to articulate that and, in the pictures that we use. And, you know, I think our brand is just an extension of of who we are, And that that goes down to everything you do, what the office looks like, what the messaging is when you're When you're rebranding your website, and we have we we get a significant amount of traffic off of our website. You know, I think that when you Google women advisers or LGBTQ, we we come up. We we get a young a lot of young professionals through word-of-mouth, and I think the fact that that's on our website really helped us Focus and, not feel bad about excluding, like I remember I think Leah asked me if if I was going to if it was gonna be uncomfortable excluding like, not not including men in the marketing, I was like, no.

Kathy Fish [00:11:42]:

They're not the peep men don't come to us on their own very often. You know? So I think we need to Target, who we've been working with well, and, the video that we made to the scripting of of what we were gonna show to the examples of the types of clients we serve. I think we were really clear, and who we wanted to serve and how we serve them. And, I honestly with without Leah leading the charge. I mean, she kept me on task. I mean, it took us almost a year. It's it's not it's not like just Redoing a website and having an putting a few pictures up there, there was so much thought and energy that went into it. Hiring professional Professionals, photographers, videographers, you you really have to I think if you don't know what your brand is, You need to figure it out because that needs to shine through in everything that you put out into the world.

Kathy Fish [00:12:45]:

You know? And and the website is is like your the entree. So I think I think it's really important.

Joanna Ehresman [00:12:52]:

Well It's interesting you mentioned oh, sorry. You you mentioned the web the website because it's like the number 1 question that people Have when they come to the website whether they know it consciously or not. But is this am I in the right place? Is this the right place for me? So it sounds like you We're very intentional of communicating who this place is right for. Right? And it's and it's working. So that's really

Leah Alter [00:13:16]:

I was just gonna say, if you're you're curious, if you go to their website, it will be very clear, fishandassociates.com. You it'll be very clear who they are speaking to and who they want to work with, who they do work with. And, yeah, there was a lot of thought goes into branding. Right? Everything from your logo to The pictures that you use on your website to the words that you choose, all of that was really thought out, and Kathy was very, very committed to the process. And I think that is why it's continued to be as successful as it has as well. You know, Kathy has said to me many times, and I've heard her say this to other advisers many times, which is you have to be involved In your brand, in your marketing, that is how it becomes successful. That's how it becomes innate and natural for you to talk about is because it is an extension of you.

Kathy Fish [00:14:17]:

I think that was, Kerry was, Was involved on on many levels with helping with who we were gonna serve and with the Scripting of the video as well, but I couldn't have even just handed it over to her. We had to both be involved. And I think you get the best end result that way. So I agree with you a 100%. It was painful at many times because I didn't know if it was ever gonna get finished, but I I think we were both thrilled at the how it all came together. So that's the other thing I think People have to realize it's it's a lot of work if you really want it to be good and to reflect who you are.

Leah Alter [00:15:04]:

I have mentioned in previous episodes of this show of Women's Share, and so we have to talk about it. How did a man is not a plan come about? And how does it still influence what you do today?

Kathy Fish [00:15:20]:

Like I said, I started in this business in 1990. And at that time, I was married to Kerry's dad. She was 4 years old. I came from an old school family. There's 8 kids in my family. My mom took care of the home. My dad worked, and he really took care of the saving and investing and sending us to school. And I I graduated in the seventies, and that's when women were really starting to enter the workforce.

Kathy Fish [00:15:51]:

And I knew I wanted to work, and I wanted A career, and I I decided to delve into this career because I thought I had A working spouse that had regular income coming in. And back then, most people worked on commissions. You got paid for 6 months, and you were set set free to Figure it out for yourself. But what what happened was that my my spouse and I just Weren't on the same page with what we wanted out of life, what we valued. And fast forward, a year into starting into it, I was A single I was a single mom. I had taken a cut and paid enter into this business. And the the main thing that I was very deeply in debt, the main takeaway for me was I was never ever going to rely on anybody else for the rest of my life, for my financial well-being, for my happiness. And I set a goal very early on when I didn't even know where if if I was gonna make it in this career, but I set a goal that if I did, that I was gonna become one of my top 10 clients, that I was gonna Follow the advice that I was giving.

Kathy Fish [00:17:12]:

I was a little bit ashamed to tell my story early on because I thought If if I could be in this kind of debt, you know, it what's what are people gonna think of me? But at the end of the day, I mean, I I accomplished a lot. I got out of debt. And, I mean, I built a great firm, but a lot of Help from my partner who's been with me 15 years now, but, you know, it was I knew that I came up with the man is not a plan because that was Very true for me, and I wanted to help other women because I knew I knew what it felt like. I know what it feels like to think you're never gonna dig yourself out with goals and with determination and guts. And, Yeah. I I was I was able to do it. I had many experiences working with other women that Showed me the kind of client that I really did wanna work with. Just quick example, I had a I I went in and did a group of seminars at Chrysler Corporation with a male adviser.

Kathy Fish [00:18:26]:

And, after After we did this series, he told me that, he was gonna take off all the managers, and I should just Take the the women that were in the room, and I I thought, well, okay. I wasn't happy about it, but I ended up to my I I got my first 2 clients that had $1,000,000. And this is almost 30 years ago, and they were secretaries that had saved never really made more than 40, $50,000 a year, but they had saved they have been given stock. And, I mean, it was and he didn't ever make anything Off of that, the the man the managers never did business with them. Irma. Another another epiphany that Don't judge a book by its cover. Treat every relationship with an open mind. And, I mean, you find out that It's it's all got to do with people's attitude around money and, you know, I learned that you could Be somebody that makes 6 or 7 figures and never save a penny, and you can have people that make modest incomes that Just are good savers, and it's not that they don't enjoy their life, but, you know, that was That was a real eye opener for me early on, and it made me wanna work with women.

Kathy Fish [00:19:57]:

And because I thought women are like, Well, the same way I felt the LGBTQ community wasn't being served. So many women were overlooked. And to me, this was like a Goldmine, and I am one of them. I'm a woman. So, you know, it's it's just I think we I think we related well, and that is I mean, it's my story that created a man is not a plan, but I tried to get that message out to the world because, You know, a lot of people depend on their, spouse. Even today, you would have thought Things would have changed over 30 years, but there's still there's still a lot of women that just hand the Financial power over to their spouses. And my message is, that's fine, but you better know what you have, where it is, and understand, you know, at least at a high level when you're trying to stop.

Leah Alter [00:20:56]:

I'm I'm curious, Kerry too. Like, I'm I'm watching your face as your mom's telling the story. How was it growing up and seeing your mom, You know, make these changes and grow this business. I mean, is that what really inspired you to to join her?

Kerry Jackson [00:21:14]:

Yeah. I mean, it's I always knew that she was a hard worker, and I but, you know, it's it's funny. I don't even know if I've ever told her this, but I actually didn't even know her job title until I saw it on a form at Grace St. Luke's when I was in the office in middle when I was like, oh, that's what we call her. Like, I knew she told people what to do with their money, but it's like when I was growing up, I just Knew she took great care of me and that people liked her and that she used to give when she was first starting, she used to give these conferences all around the city, like educational events and stuff we still really do to this day. And I remember, you know, Kelly, my stepdad, bringing me up there After all of them and hoping there will be cookies left. And it's like so, I mean, despite her going through as difficult a time she did, it never down to me. I thought I had a great childhood.

Kerry Jackson [00:22:06]:

I never knew we were in debt. I thought life was was pretty great. But the older I got and and realized what She did and what her career was about. She helped me open a bank account in high school. I was always encouraged to work and make my own money, which I loved to do. And I liked the control in particular of over things. I'm a very type a high anxiety person. So for me, that that really appealed to me.

Kerry Jackson [00:22:35]:

And, you know, how I came into the business, I was originally in school for film. I wanted to be a casting director from the time I was, like, 8 years old. And how an 8 year old comes up with this? Who knows what there were Internet wasn't even a thing back then. I don't know what I was doing. But I was dead set on it, and then I had, like, a very early midlife crisis in college. And I was like, I need to be doing something where I feel like I'm helping people or I'm, like, never gonna sleep another night. So when I moved back to Memphis after college, we had A conversation. And for years, I thought she asked me, and she says I asked her.

Kerry Jackson [00:23:09]:

So I who knows? But we both agreed that I would come there and Commit at least 3 years because, you know, training is is an investment and a commitment of time, but I really wasn't even there a year before I Fell in love with it. And and the reason I wanted to come is she was like, we help people in financial planning. So, you know, come check it out, see what it's about, and I loved it. I signed up for the CFP, you know, within about a year and a half and just worked my way up and never left.

Joanna Ehresman [00:23:38]:

Wow. Well and, Kerry, 1 more question on a man is not a plan. So this Kathy, this started as a presentation. Like, it does this theme live on, Or what forms does it take from a content perspective? And then, Kerry, I'd be curious to hear how is it resonating with the younger professionals. Kathy, you said it's still relevant, but Is there a little bit of pushback of, like, how are you why are you even assuming Amanda's part of my plan? You know? Just curious how that how that's playing out now.

Kerry Jackson [00:24:04]:

Yeah. I mean, I it's on our website. So it it I do I hear it a lot when I talk to women young or, you know, whatever age, when I do the initial call. So it's still very relevant. It still appeals to a lot of women. We're not man haters. I mean, we I have a male partner. She has a male partner.

Kerry Jackson [00:24:24]:

Like, we love men with many exceptions, but we, you know, we just We wanna, but it just we still app I think who we appeal to are strong women that make their own money, And some may have been through a divorce and and had a very similar story to Kathy's. And so, of course, that is gonna naturally appeal to them even if They're already in new relationships. But the the the story and the realization that without even maybe trying to, they've come to rely too much on their ex Spouse and and their contributions, that that resonates with a lot of women. And then with younger women, people in my generation, It appeals because it is not as important to to my generation to get married, to start a family by 30. That's not to say it's not to anyone, and it's a wonderful thing for the people it's important to. But there are just as many women that, You know, they wanna have a partner. They may want children, but, you know, getting married and being taken care of is not on the to do list. And that we wanna make our own money, be responsible for our own finances, and even all the women I know that are in, you know, heterosexual relationships, we run the money.

Kerry Jackson [00:25:38]:

I I don't have a single female friend who's in a male relationship where the male makes the money decisions. You know? And Yeah. You know, we all encourage our people to be involved, but, yeah, I would say it's it's still very relevant overall.

Joanna Ehresman [00:25:51]:

Okay. So switching gears slightly, wanna talk a little bit about we've heard a lot about your career stories here, but, we like to ask each guest, what is the best Career advice you've received. And, Kerry, do you wanna lead off?

Kerry Jackson [00:26:04]:

Oh, sure. Mine actually is something Kathy has said for many years, which Is start where you are. You know, I think I had a lot of I was excited when I changed to financial planning from film, but I also had a lot of Fears about letting go of a dream that I'd had for a really long time that I would consider at the time to have failed at, But it really gave me the freedom to just push forward with with my new career, and I use that all the time with clients Because a lot of them really feel like they've waited too long to start planning or haven't done enough, and just reminding them, Start where you are and reframing them. What else can you do? I mean, you can't go back. So it that really helps people focus on Where they are and what they can do from here.

Joanna Ehresman [00:26:51]:

I love that. Love that. Kathy, how about you? Your best career advice.

Kathy Fish [00:26:55]:

Oh, there's There's 2 things that came up for me. 1 was my dad. I I just remember him saying this when I was growing up, When it came to many things, but if something happened that was good, you know, my my dad would say, well, you know, The harder your work, the luckier you get. And that stuck with me just in the way he approached life And that, I mean, he didn't it wasn't like my my father worked a lot because He had 8 kids to support, but it wasn't it wasn't like work at all costs. It was kind of work smart, and the harder you work, the luckier you'll get. You know? It's just That there really isn't, a lot of luck involved. So that just resonates with me in the background. But when I went through yoga yoga teacher training about 20 years ago, one of the yoga teachers that I had, His his mantra, which I have made my own, is everything is already okay, and that is so powerful To me, I use it in my daily life on a regular basis.

Joanna Ehresman [00:28:16]:

She does.

Kathy Fish [00:28:16]:

When things go wrong, everything is already okay. We remind each other of That. And when you approach life and what happens in it that way, it it's it gives you hope. You see a light at the end of the Tunnel. And so to me, I don't know that that was career advice, but I I have used it religiously. And and I I love I just love that simple saying.

Leah Alter [00:28:44]:

It's so grounding. It's so grounding. Right? Like, great life advice. Career advice is great life advice.

Joanna Ehresman [00:28:52]:

Yes. Yeah.

Leah Alter [00:28:52]:

Yes. This has just been

Kerry Jackson [00:28:55]:

Start using it.

Leah Alter [00:28:56]:

Yeah. Absolutely. Has just been such an amazing conversation with both of you. Thank you so so much for being here and sharing your story, sharing your advice. It's super inspiring. You guys both continue to inspire me all the time, and that's really our show for today. So if Ours is a mission that you want to share in. Please subscribe to the podcast wherever you get your favorite Podcast platform from.

Leah Alter [00:29:24]:

And with that, I am Leah Alter.

Joanna Ehresman [00:29:27]:

And I'm Joanna Ehresman, and we'll catch you on the next episode of WomenShare.