Building Confidence and Shattering Stereotypes in the Financial Services Industry

Sheena Yap Chan [00:00:00]:
First off, it's a mindset shift knowing that there's more than enough spots at the top, and it's important to bring women with us. Because if not, then it's the same thing over and over again. So really having each other's back, really working together is important because men work together all the time. Right? Like, that's how they're able to advance because they collaborate. They, have each other's backs. So as women, you know, we need to have each other's backs. Right?

Leah Alter [00:00:37]:
Hi there. Thanks so much for joining us. I'm Leah Alter.

Joanna Ehresman [00:00:40]:
And I'm Joanna Ehresman.

Leah Alter [00:00:42]:
And this is WomenShare, a celebration of women in financial services.

Joanna Ehresman [00:00:47]:
Yes. And today, we are so thrilled to welcome Sheena Yap Chan to the show. Sheena is a Wall Street Journal best selling author, award winning podcaster, and keynote speaker on a mission to close the gender confidence gap. She's the creator and host of the Tao of Self Confidence, a top ranked podcast globally with over 1,000,000 downloads where she's interviewed hundreds of women from celebrities to 8 figure CEOs about their journeys to self confidence. Through her work, including her best selling book, Sheena helps women tap into their leadership potential and move beyond the limiting beliefs that often hold us back. Had plenty of conversations about that here on the show. So this is great. Sheena's insights have been featured in platforms like Mindvalley, NBC News, and Fox, and she's delivered speeches for organizations like NASA and Live Nation.

Joanna Ehresman [00:01:37]:
So today, she's here with us to share her expertise and her story to help us grow our confidence, embrace leadership, and thrive in our in our industries like financial services, where we need more women at the top. So, Sheena, thank you so much for joining us. We can't wait to, hear from you today.

Sheena Yap Chan [00:01:54]:
Hey, ladies. Thanks again for having me here. It's such an honor to be here, so I'm just super excited to, have this chat.

Leah Alter [00:02:01]:
Yeah. Sheena, we are so excited. I think what you are doing is going to resonate so much with our audience, especially around self confidence. You can never really have too much of that. Right. So let's start with your podcast, the Tao of Self Confidence. What inspired you to start the podcast, and what do you really focus on, on the show?

Sheena Yap Chan [00:02:28]:
Yeah. I mean, I I think for me, I've always wanted to have a platform, and, back then, I didn't even know what a podcast was. I just remember seeing it on iTunes because we didn't have Apple Podcasts back then. And, for me, representation was really important, especially when you grow up in North America, not having representation, not seeing anybody in the media that look like you. So that was one of the reasons I started it. And, also, having support, just because we don't have a lot of support when it comes to confidence, especially being an Asian woman. You know, confidence is something that we don't talk about. We're usually told to stay in the background, never make any noise.

Sheena Yap Chan [00:03:07]:
Just do as you're told. And so there's a lot of repressed feelings that we don't share, and then that's how we have all these, like, confidence issues. So, those are both the purposes I started as representation, as, a support system. And it's really just women being able to share their stories of confidence. Because as women, we're afraid to share what we go through. We think vulnerability is weakness when it's a strength. And then being able to hear hear all the stories too makes me feel, that I'm not the only one going through this. And knowing that other women have gone through it and have been able to come out of it.

Sheena Yap Chan [00:03:45]:
It just gives me a little bit of hope, and it gives the listener a little bit of hope in their own journeys.

Joanna Ehresman [00:03:50]:
That aligns so well. If you see us nodding and smiling, that's watching on the video, it's like that's similar to well, you know, women's share hasn't been around as long as, your show. It's very similar in terms of, like, the reason for the shows. Right? Is I think and specifically as as women, we can support and lift each other up in those connections. Right? I think it just helps to empower each other so that that Yeah. Your story really resonates. Yeah.

Leah Alter [00:04:19]:
I think it there's something so healing from telling your own story too. Right? To your point, like, if, you've repressed that for a long time, getting to have a platform where you get to actually tell your story and have other women go, oh, yeah, me too. There's something just, like, so healing about that journey.

Sheena Yap Chan [00:04:41]:
Yeah. For sure. And I think I think as women too, we need to share our stories more. I know a lot of women feel like, well, my story doesn't matter. You know, who's gonna listen to me? I think if it if if it can impact one person, I mean, it's done your you've done your job. But if the next that person could be, like, the next Oprah or the next world leader, you just never know. That's why sometimes

Joanna Ehresman [00:05:04]:
Right.

Sheena Yap Chan [00:05:04]:
It's you know, just hearing just one story can make a difference in the world.

Joanna Ehresman [00:05:08]:
So true. So true. And so on your show, you've had more than 800 women as guests. Yeah. But yeah. I know. That's fantastic. Congratulations.

Joanna Ehresman [00:05:18]:
Like, tell us a little bit about what themes have emerged across those conversations on their journeys to building that self confidence.

Sheena Yap Chan [00:05:27]:
Yeah. I think self love was really important. You know, as women, we tend to love the good parts of ourself, not really giving ourselves unconditional love. So learning to love yourself was a big a big one. Showing gratitude, you know, just being able to realize your potential to go out there and be the person that you're meant to be. I think sometimes we have all these challenges that we go through, and sometimes we hit a boiling point thinking, like, this is enough is enough. We need to do something different. And so that's how these women are able to go out there and do something different because they've hit a boiling point.

Sheena Yap Chan [00:06:06]:
They've had this moment that made them realize, I can do this. I'm gonna figure it out, and they're able to go out there and do it. So, you know, the journey isn't like roses and butterflies and rainbows and cotton candy. It's it's ugly. Right? It's messy. But out of that mess, something beautiful comes along. So, you know, it's a little bit more raw and authentic and more vulnerable, which I think is needed in this world, especially in social media. You know, we see, like, these perfectly filtered photos and videos, not realizing we don't know what goes behind closed doors.

Sheena Yap Chan [00:06:45]:
And I'm not saying everyone is like that, but, of course, you know, sometimes on social media, we wanna put our best selves. Right? Not realizing it's okay to show up messy. It's okay to be authentic. It's okay to say, hey. You know, today, you're not okay because the all days are good. So that's more of the themes, more honesty, more rawness, more authenticity, being more vulnerable, showing that that could be a strength and not a weakness.

Leah Alter [00:07:14]:
Yeah. Well well I

Joanna Ehresman [00:07:16]:
was gonna say, Anna, I picked up on the term real quick then. So you used the term boiling point. Like, it's that I would love to dig in on that a little bit. Is that, like, meaning they're frustrated, fed up, or there's just some big transition in their life, or any of the above?

Sheena Yap Chan [00:07:32]:
Yeah. I think it's more like they're fed up. You know, they'll they're fed up with the current situation that they're in, so they're like, I need to do something different. Right? I need to go out there and live my dream life, or maybe something horrific really happened, and that also was, like, a turning point. So, like, if someone like, let's say you're at work and someone constantly puts you down. And, you know, in the beginning, you're like, okay. Whatever. He's just whatever.

Sheena Yap Chan [00:07:57]:
Right? You kinda ignore it. But then if they're constantly, like, taunting you, you're like, oh, okay. This is a little bit too much. Like, I need to tell this per like, I need to tell this person he needs to stop. Right? Or I'll report them to HR or something. Right? They've hit that boiling point because they're just fed up of being taunted for no apparent reason. So, for some women, they they've reached that boiling point. Right? Maybe, they have family members who treat them bad or they have a bad boss or, they're just going through one bad situation after another.

Sheena Yap Chan [00:08:32]:
And they're like, okay. This something needs to change. Like, I need to this needs to stop. So

Joanna Ehresman [00:08:38]:
Mhmm. And I need to be the change in that. Like, how I show up is what I can control and change. Okay. Got

Sheena Yap Chan [00:08:44]:
it. Yeah.

Leah Alter [00:08:45]:
One of the other things that kinda stuck out to me from that is, that, like, growth and growth minded people, people who want to change and evolve, like, that is not a linear process. Like, you don't go from here to here. Like, you go from here to here and then something happens, and then you're up here and then you're here and then you're around. You know? It's never growth is never a linear process. And I think the authenticity that you were talking about and the vulnerability shows us that we're all on our kind of own journey. We're gonna get there when we get there in our own sort of pace, but that it's not like I've made this decision and it looks like this. I went from point a to point b and it was like easy breezy. Right? Because we're we're the universe has a way of of showing us where those spots are, those blind spots are, where we have the opportunity to make a different choice and to to grow and to show up in a different way.

Leah Alter [00:09:47]:
Do you see that with your guests a lot?

Sheena Yap Chan [00:09:50]:
Yeah. I mean, I think that's the problem. I think we feel like growth is linear when growth isn't. Like you mentioned, it's like a roller coaster. Sometimes it's up, sometimes it's down, or you're going upside down. And it's and it's okay. That's life. Like, life isn't linear.

Sheena Yap Chan [00:10:06]:
Like, life is full of surprises. I think the pandemic was a huge wake up call for a lot of people. Like, change can literally happen at any given moment. We went from, like, the world just, like, being normal to, like, lockdown. You know? Like, not being able to step out, no storms out. And so, you know, we have to learn how do we adapt to those. How do we adapt to new situations, new environments? How do we pivot? What do we do? Right? Being able to build resilience and just knowing, like, no matter what the situation is, we're gonna be fine. We're gonna figure this out.

Sheena Yap Chan [00:10:41]:
And, more we just get you know, the more we just have that confidence to figure things out, that's how we get the results. I know as women, it's a little bit harder because, of course, society sees us differently. We've been, painted a story where we have to show up as being perfect. But, really, we can just figure things out as we go. And if we constantly just do that, just imagine we can accomplish. Like, men do that all the time, like, all the time. Right? You ask them, well, how'd you do that? And they're like, I don't know. Because they really don't know because they're just out there trying to figure things out.

Sheena Yap Chan [00:11:16]:
And and it's great. Right? And, you know, I realize if women did that, like, just we we we would, like, just go so much further. But I know I also know we have a lot of standards. Right? Like, you know, it's not lady like to do this. It's not lady like to do that. If we go out there and forge our path, you know, we're seen as as aggressive and too much, while men are seen as confident for doing the exact same thing. So we have to learn

Leah Alter [00:11:46]:
to

Sheena Yap Chan [00:11:46]:
also push through these, like, labels that we still go through today so that we can normalize these things. It's not an easy feat, of course. It's gonna there's a lot of pushback. Like, sometimes, we take one step forward and then 5 steps back, but that's what progress looks like sometimes, unfortunately.

Leah Alter [00:12:04]:
Right. Yeah. Well and on that same note, you talk a lot about specific limiting stereotypes, you know, in your experience for, you know, that Asian women face, like being labeled as submissive or overly accommodating. How did these stereotypes and I mean, all stereotypes, really, impact confidence? And what can we do to sort of challenge that or dismantle that so we can show up and try the things, more confidently?

Sheena Yap Chan [00:12:37]:
Yeah. I mean, I think this is wise sharing our stories is really important, being the representation we want to see in the world. I mean, that's not easy, of course, right, especially when you're, like, the first one to venture it out. You're figuring things out. You don't know if this is gonna work. You don't know what the backlash is gonna be like, but, I mean, if we go out there and take action and just take it one step at a time to dismantle all these stereotypes, then we can normalize women being able to just live freely and not be bogged down by these stereotypes or these labels. You know, like, one one one stereotype that I think all women go through is, you know, being told that self promotion isn't ladylike. It's tacky for women.

Sheena Yap Chan [00:13:22]:
But, really, I mean, if you're in business for yourself, like, how do you expect people to come to you? Right? Like, you have to promote yourself, and there's nothing wrong with promoting yourself because you're providing a service or a product that can change someone's life for the better. So, for me, it's just learning to keep showing up, learning to put myself out there even if I don't like it because I know there's a woman out there who's feeling the same way, who's feeling, like, scared and feeling like they are waiting for permission. So it just takes one woman to just open that door, break that barrier so that we can bring along other women in the process.

Joanna Ehresman [00:14:01]:
Yes. And be that example. Right? It's almost like through the example that you're setting, you're helping them to write themselves that permission slip. Right? You know, being like, okay. Look. There's Sheena. There's Sheena out doing the thing. I'm gonna, you know, I I feel inspired to be a little bit bolder in my approach.

Joanna Ehresman [00:14:20]:
I love that.

Sheena Yap Chan [00:14:20]:
Yeah.

Joanna Ehresman [00:14:21]:
Yeah. And you specifically we talked about, you know, balancing, like, confidence and likability as women. You know, we were talking about that just a moment ago. And, like, how do you how do you think, you know, in a work environment, we can support each other or be allies to other women in in navigating that tension that we face.

Sheena Yap Chan [00:14:45]:
Yeah. I mean, unfortunately, sometimes we can also be the problem especially in a workplace setting. Right? Yeah. I mean, I've dealt with women who have been catty, and that also stems from this mindset of black. Right? We think there's only one spot at the top, and so we're afraid to bring other women with us. And so it's first well, first off, it's a mindset shift knowing that there's more than enough spots at the top, and it's important to bring women with us. Because if not, then it's the same thing over and over again. So really having each other's back, really working together is important because men work together all the time.

Sheena Yap Chan [00:15:27]:
Right? Like, that's how they're able to advance because they collaborate. They, have each other's backs. So as women, you know, we need to have each other's backs. Right? Help each other out. Bring them along. Because I've spoken to a lot of women and, you know, unfortunately, sometimes they said it's the men who's actually more, supportive than the women at times. And so I know this doesn't really get talked about as much. Maybe it's a taboo.

Sheena Yap Chan [00:15:54]:
I don't know. But it I know it's a problem, and I think it's something that, as women, we need to work together as well. Right? It's not the only problem. It's one of the problems, that needs to be addressed because as women, it is important to collaborate, to work together together to to lift each other up instead of bringing each other down.

Leah Alter [00:16:15]:
Yeah. I mean, that was something about a year ago. We had someone on the show, Julie Raggetts, who did a, really amazing women in wealth study. And she talked about the queen bee effect of, you know, once you get to the top, sort of kicking that ladder out from underneath you and not helping the other women come with you. And, it's very prominent in the financial services industry. A lot I mean, in a lot of different industries. But in our industry specifically, you know, we only represent about 25% of the people in the industry. So, when some when a woman moves into a position of power, a president, a CEO type decision role, if she is not doing the things to help the other women in the industry, to your point, it can be very detrimental.

Leah Alter [00:17:13]:
And that was Joanna and I both had huge light bulb moments reflecting on our own careers of coming across women that were like, oh, that's what was going on there. Because in the moment, you don't even necessarily realize what's happening. Right? We, at least for me, I can only talk about my own experience. I will internalize that and take that personally. Like, this person doesn't like me or doesn't think I'm good at my job when there's a whole system of things at play. And to your point, we have to dismantle it at the core, before we really see the ultimate long term change. Well, Sheena, we ask every guest, this is one of our very favorite questions, what is the best career advice that you've ever received?

Sheena Yap Chan [00:18:07]:
I think for me, the best advice I ever got was when one door closes, another one opens. Right? I think as women, sometimes we're so afraid of losing our job, losing the opportunity, not realizing it's not the end of the world, and we can always there's always new new opportunities out there that we can seize. So maybe you just got laid off and you think it's the end of the world, but maybe that could be a good sign of something starting something new. Maybe it's that time to start a business, write a book, travel the world, whatever that may look like. I mean, there are so many stories where people got laid off from their jobs during the pandemic and started a passion project, and then their passion project became a full time career. So, I think that's the best advice I've always gotten. Like, when I'm feeling doubt or feeling like, oh my gosh. Like, what if this is the only chance I get? Then I'm reminded of myself that when one door closes, another one opens.

Sheena Yap Chan [00:19:01]:
And it was actually my former boss who always reminded me of that when I was feeling doubt. He's like, don't worry about it. When one door closes, another one opens. So I always remind myself that.

Leah Alter [00:19:15]:
Yeah. Well and when you let go of things, you make space for new things.

Sheena Yap Chan [00:19:21]:
Yeah.

Leah Alter [00:19:21]:
Right? When you're always like, well, I want this new thing to happen. It's like, well, what have you let go of, at least, like, energetically that will allow the space for the new thing to come in? Because you can't just keep piling things in. Right? You can't hold on to it all.

Sheena Yap Chan [00:19:39]:
Yeah. For sure. So yeah. I think that's the best career advice, and I hope, you know, the people listening, it reminds them as well that just because one one they're closest, doesn't mean it's not the end. Like, there's so many other doors you could open.

Leah Alter [00:19:52]:
Yeah. Love that.

Joanna Ehresman [00:19:53]:
Love that. Agreed. And then outside of, you know, all of your professional accomplishments in your podcast and everything, what else can we celebrate with you today? Is there anything in your your personal life you wanna celebrate on the show?

Sheena Yap Chan [00:20:08]:
I guess, you know, it's a new year, so let's celebrate that. I do have a new book coming out, later this year, which is called bridging the confidence gap, how empowered women change the world. So it's also a book on women leadership, you know, talking about the things women face generally, how we can tackle that, you know, so that we can have more women in leadership. Because there's been reports that if we have more women in leadership in corporate, in entrepreneurship, in government, everybody wins. Everybody wins. Right? So how do we get more women in leadership? What do we need to do? You know, how can we bridge this gap? And so this includes everybody. Like, how can men also help bridge this gap? Right? Right. What can women do to start feeling more confident to be the leader that they're meant to be? So, you know, I talk about or I write about things like a deep dive on imposter syndrome because as women, imposter syndrome is huge.

Sheena Yap Chan [00:21:06]:
In fact, they mentioned, like, in the workplace, like, 75% of women, deal with imposter syndrome. And so, you know, why do we go through that? What are some of the reasons as to why we go through imposter syndrome? And, you know, how do we help women step into their confidence era so that they can be the woman that they're meant to be or the leader that they're meant to be. And then just sharing, like, you know, the benefits of having more women in leadership. You know, if women if there was more leadership women leadership in each country just or just more women in the workforce. Right? Just imagine how much more money the the country would have. Right? Everyone's GDP would go go go up. We'd have more money to build more better roads and have, you know, just better things for our respective countries. So it's a huge win for everybody, but, unfortunately, that's not always the case.

Sheena Yap Chan [00:21:59]:
Right? If you look at the current events for women, you know, it's we're still set back so much. Right? They mentioned that gender parity won't be achieved until 2154. Now it's actually delayed 4 more years. It won't be achieved until 2158, and that's the earliest. So at this rate, it's gonna feel like it's gonna delay a little bit more. And when you see countries like Afghanistan where women's rights are have have been stripped away from them, It's really heartbreaking because if one country can do that, other countries can follow suit as well. You know, when we hear women aren't allowed to speak, in public, aren't allowed to show their faces, aren't even allowed to sing in their own homes, which is really ridiculous. Right? Like, you know, what we take for granted is just, like, basic human rights to someone's, like, freedom that's been stripped away from them.

Sheena Yap Chan [00:22:53]:
So it's really important. As women, we do have to speak up for each other. I know sometimes we're like, well, I don't live in that country. What do I have to do with it? It's like, no. Because as women, like, this can affect all of us. Right?

Leah Alter [00:23:06]:
Yeah. So

Sheena Yap Chan [00:23:06]:
it is important to speak up for them to show up and and talk about these things. Right? There's so many things in the world that we don't even know is happening, especially when it comes to women. That's not talked about in mainstream media because it's not trendy. You know, it's not newsworthy, but it's also important to bring up. So, super excited about that. That's my second book. I never thought in my in my wildest dreams I would ever write a book for a huge publisher like Wiley. So having one book was great.

Sheena Yap Chan [00:23:39]:
So having 2 books was like, oh my goodness. This is, like, awesome. I don't know if that could ever happen to me. So I'm really grateful for the for the opportunity and knowing that, you know, if I can do this, literally anyone can do this. Like, I came to Canada not knowing how to speak English. I had to take English classes so that I can learn how to put sentences together because my sentences didn't make sense. And so, you know, I never took a writing course. I really just figured it out.

Leah Alter [00:24:13]:
Yeah. Well, and you're living it. I mean, you're living what you talk about. Right? So you walked the walk, and who better to learn those skills from someone who literally did it from the ground up.

Sheena Yap Chan [00:24:28]:
Thank you. Amazing.

Joanna Ehresman [00:24:29]:
This is Really amazing. Yes. Congratulations. And

Leah Alter [00:24:32]:
this has been such an amazing conversation. If somebody is interested in connecting with you, ordering your book, preordering your new book, where's the best place to do all of that?

Sheena Yap Chan [00:24:44]:
Yeah. For sure. So you can check out my website, shanyachen.com. You can order my current book, The Tiled Self Confidence, a Guide to Moving Beyond Trauma and Awakening to Living Within. So that's on all, like, major book retailers like Barnes and Noble's, Amazon, Indigo. For the upcoming book, there you can preorder it. It's available to for preorder on Amazon, Barnes and Noble's, Indigo, and other book retailers, worldwide. If you'd like to also connect with me, I'm on social media.

Sheena Yap Chan [00:25:12]:
I'm on LinkedIn, Twitter, Facebook, Instagram, TikTok, YouTube. If you forgot anything that I mentioned at all, you can literally Google my name, Sheena Yap Chan, because I'm the only Sheena Yap Chan on the Internet. And, also, on the website, I do have a free quiz that will, tell you your self confidence personality. So that's on Gina. Oh. Yeah. I wish

Leah Alter [00:25:38]:
I could

Joanna Ehresman [00:25:38]:
get in that. Yeah. Yes. Well, thank you, Sheena. We just really appreciate you taking the time and joining us today. Just I and congratulations again on your your existing book and your upcoming book and and sharing your story and doing your part to pay it forward and help other women. So just Yeah. Thank you.

Joanna Ehresman [00:25:59]:
No.

Sheena Yap Chan [00:25:59]:
Thank you. It's such such an honor to be here. So I'm just grateful for this opportunity.

Joanna Ehresman [00:26:05]:
That is our show for today. If ours is a mission that you want to share in, subscribe to WomenShare on your favorite podcast platform. With that, I'm Joanna Erisman.

Leah Alter [00:26:16]:
And I'm Leah Alter, and we will catch you on the next episode of WomenShare.