2024 Wrapped: The Best Advice of the Year for Female Financial Advisors

Joanna Ehresman [00:00:00]:
We really want to just do this for the betterment of the industry and help women have like, get a bigger seat at the table. Not to take away from men, but we think clients will be better served. The whole industry will be better served with more representation.

Leah Alter [00:00:14]:
Yeah. And what we have seen over the last year and change, right, when we started in, in the fall of 23 is, really, we have built a community, and that for us from the very beginning was the most important thing. Hi there. Thanks so much for joining us. I'm Leah Alter. And I'm Joanna Ehresman. And this is WomenShare, a celebration of women in financial services.

Joanna Ehresman [00:00:52]:
And today's an exciting day because New Year's Day happens to also fall on WomenShare Wednesday. So it's January 1st. Happy New Year to you, Leah.

Leah Alter [00:01:02]:
Happy New Year, Joanna. I hope everyone had an amazing holiday season. We're so grateful to have you tune in today, and we're excited about what's ahead for the show in 2025. A lot more great guests, great episodes, and we're bringing you today some of our top moments through 2024. It was a really exciting year.

Joanna Ehresman [00:01:28]:
It was. You know, when 2024 started, women's share was only a few months old. We launched in September 2023. And reflecting back on why we started the show, you know, our whole goal was to give women in the financial services industry where women represent far less than half, closer to a quarter of all the professionals in this space. We wanted to give women a platform, and so we when Leah approached me with the idea about the show, it was a clear yes in terms of our passion around supporting women. And when we first started, because, Leah, you and I are marketers and we had such deep career experience in the marketing space, we launched the show to be focused on marketing best practices as well as career stories. But as we recorded and got into producing women's share, we quickly found that our, like, most meaningful and poignant conversations and moments on the show weren't necessarily marketing focused.

Leah Alter [00:02:26]:
Yeah. That was such a kind of light bulb moment, and I was feeling it. You were feeling it, and you came to me and were like, I have this idea, and it was just like, yes. This is the natural sort of progression. So, we broadened the theme of the show because we were really it was really about celebrating the women in the financial services industry. So we went from a marketing guide to celebration of women in the financial services industry, and that really has led to even more fantastic conversations. Yes. We really wanna thank all of our guests who have come on.

Leah Alter [00:03:07]:
Joanna and I talk about it all the time, how proud we are of, being able to host a space where people feel comfortable to come in and be authentic, be vulnerable, talk about some hard things, also celebrate some amazing things. And ultimately, it all benefits other women and that really is what we are most passionate about. Getting more women in the industry, keeping more women here and avoiding some of those pitfalls that a lot of us have experienced in our careers.

Joanna Ehresman [00:03:42]:
A 100%. And I think it's the sharing of like, what I found anyways, I'm it's nice to hear that there's so many relatable moments, right, where it's like, oh, it wasn't just me, right, as our guests are talking. So yeah. So this community is real, I feel like,

Joanna Ehresman [00:03:56]:
that we've

Joanna Ehresman [00:03:57]:
built, which is so exciting.

Leah Alter [00:03:58]:
Yeah. Absolutely. And we have a few things to really celebrate. If you are a Spotify listener,

Leah Alter [00:04:03]:
you know, you at the end of you know, all the artists that you spent way more hours than you had imagined ever listening to. But they also give us some really cool feedback as, podcasters on the platform. And we saw some really cool growth in 2024. You know, for the sake of transparency and being vulnerable, like, we wanna share that with you guys. We are never gonna be, like, the biggest podcast, and that is on purpose. Right? Like, we know that we are talking to 25% of the financial services industry. We're really focused on the women in this industry, and we know that that means it's a smaller audience. But it is a powerful community that we've built.

Leah Alter [00:04:57]:
So Spotify told us that we saw 284% uptick in listenership this year.

Joanna Ehresman [00:05:06]:
Woot woot.

Leah Alter [00:05:06]:
413% more streams of the podcast episodes. We had a 178% more followers. We have a 5 star rating on both Spotify and Apple. Thank you for those that have written reviews and give us rating. And one of my favorite things was that, Spotify, like, identifies your personality as podcasters, and they identified us as storytellers. And, I mean Love that. That's so validating. Right? Like Right.

Leah Alter [00:05:39]:
That is why we created this platform. So those are really, really fun stats.

Joanna Ehresman [00:05:46]:
Yeah. It was great to see the growth, and I think even outside of Spotify because, obviously, we're on all podcast platforms. You know? Like, overall, with the show, we've we've seen more than 4,000 downloads of our episodes, and our followers on LinkedIn among the show and us as hosts were north of 35100. Right? So it's just I don't know. Well, Leah, to your point, we're we're targeting women in financial services, although we know plenty of men listen, and thank you for listening. You are welcome too. We just it's this started this was a passion project. Right? We, for better or worse, don't have a business intention for with the show.

Joanna Ehresman [00:06:20]:
We're not looking to generate more consulting business ourselves. It's we really want to just do this for the betterment of the industry and help women have like, get a bigger seat at the table. Not to take away from men, but we think clients will be better served. The whole industry will be better served with more representation.

Leah Alter [00:06:39]:
Yeah. And what we have seen over the last year and change, right, when we started in, in the fall of 23 is, really, we have built a community. And that for us from the very beginning was the most important thing. So, you know, on that note, we have to thank and celebrate also the organizations and individuals that really helped us with our mission of continuing here on women's share. When we launched, to your point, you know, back in 2023, this was self funded. Yep. It was sort of a let's throw some stuff at the wall and see what happens. We were excited about the idea.

Leah Alter [00:07:28]:
And because we are small and so specific about our audience, we have been incredibly fortunate to attract sponsors this, you know, this past year that have really helped us keep going, quite honestly. And for transparency's sake, you know, if it wasn't for the catchlight and Exstella and RFG Advisory and BFG Advisory and Fish and Associates, all of these people who believe in our mission and have sponsored us, we just a big, big thank you. Yeah. It really was a difference maker for us in 2024. And, you know, when we're looking at 2025, we'll be really honest with you all, We are self funded again. We're back there. We don't currently have sponsors, and we want to keep going. We hear you.

Leah Alter [00:08:26]:
We get the feedback. This is something that you guys are excited about too. And so we're asking you as our community to help us do that. So if you have ideas of organizations or individuals that you think would be a good fit for us, we would love to get that feedback. We'd love to hear your ideas. We want to keep going. We want WomenShare to be here and to keep telling your stories and keep having these important conversations, but we really need the community's help to do that.

Joanna Ehresman [00:08:58]:
Yes. Well said. And what's been great in this whole process is, like, the enthusiasm that we are hearing and feeling, and I trust. Like, I'm trusting that this will this will be a a big year for us. We're gonna keep going, and we just wanna thank everybody who's been listening because that matters. And

Leah Alter [00:09:16]:
Yes.

Joanna Ehresman [00:09:16]:
And as we look at our our sponsorship and funding in 2025, we'd love your support. So so hit us up if you have some

Leah Alter [00:09:24]:
ideas. Yeah. Hit your girls up. So in our reflecting back at 2024, we really wanna share with you guys some of our I don't know. Some of the moments that stuck out for us that we wanna highlight. There were so many. Like, just narrowing down down. Yes.

Leah Alter [00:09:45]:
Was very hard. But, you know, we wanna share a few of those with you today just to remind you of really the the huge, vast of guests that we've had on here in terms of subject matter and backgrounds. And it it just really it says so much about the diversity that exists within our industry.

Joanna Ehresman [00:10:10]:
Yeah. Agreed. And I think that was also one of our goals is to have these multiple perspectives. Right? So to start off, the first couple of guests we wanna highlight on this kind of best of show, even though all of it was wonderful, but some of our favorite moments from 2024. We wanna share perspectives, of some folks who are just shining a light on something and what women face in the wealth management industry. So, first, we wanna bring you this clip. We had doctor Julie Ragatz of Carson Group on in January 2024, and she was joining us to share the findings of their state of women and wealth management report that had just been published at the time. The whole episode was just so powerful.

Joanna Ehresman [00:10:50]:
I think, unsurprisingly, there were tears. There was a lot of real sharing of our our stories. So if you haven't listened to the full episode yet, please go back and give it a listen. But, yeah, we're excited to dig into this segment with Julie.

Leah Alter [00:11:05]:
Absolutely. We had a hard time picking, like, even a favorite moment from this episode because there were so many. But we wanted to look back on the conversation that we had with Julie about the theme that emerged from their study about women and forced entrepreneurship in the industry, something that was very personal to both Joanna and I. And really, like, wasn't finding it in a corporate structure, so left to create them for ourselves, each other. So let's take a listen to that. But one of

Terri Kallsen [00:11:39]:
the things we talked about in the in the research study was this kind of forced entrepreneurship, this notion that women come into these spaces and they're like, yeah. Maybe I don't wanna eat what I kill. You know? Maybe I don't want this to be the year of execution, which kind of frankly sounds, you know, sort of violent. You know? Yeah. I wanna create a cultural space in which I feel comfortable and where I thrive. And and I can't find that, so I'm gonna go build that somewhere else. And I think that that's certainly what we've seen. Women in the rise of as you guys know better than I do, right, the rise of female focused business oriented business, the rise of of RIAs that have a different cultural field to them has been a response to that.

Joanna Ehresman [00:12:18]:
That definitely jumped out and resonated with both of us, that trend of, you know, while women starting their own business and female entrepreneurs are absolutely something to celebrate, there is that dynamic where sometimes there's that forced entrepreneurship in order to have a healthier environment that that just gave me pause. And, honestly, like, it seems clear now, but I hadn't thought of it that way as to why women might be starting their own practices or, you know, branching out. So I feel like that's really insightful. And and we've talked about the fact that, you know, not everybody has the privilege of being able to do that. Right? So what did your study find along along those lines of any other dynamics of women striking out to start their own thing?

Julie Ragatz [00:13:05]:
Well, you know, I think what was really interesting is that I I was not expecting this in the in the study. You know, this one of the the fun things about a longitudinal study is that, you know, year over year, you do see different things emerge in the data. And so for us, this was a novel finding. This came up early in our interview data, you know, with women kinda talking about their experiences. And so we were able this great research team and team I work with at Carson was able to kinda do some digging on outside research to kinda talk more about that concept and fleshed it out for us as a construct to understand. So our research didn't tell us very much other than that it exists. And I think what we're excited about next year is to kinda drill down more on that and, you know, maybe be more specific in our sampling of trying to find female owner business owners. And I talk a little bit more to them about their reasons for doing that.

Julie Ragatz [00:13:55]:
What I think we were able to figure out though just from the background research, forced entrepreneurship is not a concept unique to the the financial services industry. It's, you know, common in other industries too, certainly the tech industry. But to your point, Joanna, and this is where I think it's it's troubling, although exciting and something that we wanna applaud and encourage is that this is a difficult industry to strike out on your own. The amount of of overhead, the amount of support, the amount of knowledge, frankly, you need, to be able to start off your own practice, the amount of financial support you need from other sources as you build your own business makes this very much an opportunity for folks who are, you know, have have resources or a partner who has resources. And that I think is is troubling. You know, we wanna say it that there's a marketplace for for dissatisfied people. Right? That they at least that, you know, they can go out and and build their own thing. I think we underestimate the cost of that.

Julie Ragatz [00:14:54]:
It would be far better to have environment more environments in which people felt comfortable than forcing everyone who didn't feel comfortable to go and and kinda multiply their own their own kind of new thing to feel like they can do their job well.

Joanna Ehresman [00:15:08]:
Well, and even I think this study and these sorts of conversations will maybe help to empower people who are feeling uncomfortable to broach those conversations. Right? And bring it bring it to light. Like, Leah, you said, we have to bring these things to the fore in order to have some progress. So

Leah Alter [00:15:24]:
Interesting. And Joanna and I both had sort of light bulb moments when we were reading the findings of that research being 2 women who struck out on their own this year. Right? That was exactly our experience, which is kind of done trying to, you know, square peg this corporate life. And we're gonna go try to create something that inspires us and, yeah, where we can truly serve the type of clients we wanna serve and do the work we wanna do without the noise. Because I don't think either of us were in a situation where we didn't enjoy our work. And I think that was, like, the big kind of, you know, light bulb moment. We both loved the work we were doing. We loved the work we're doing now.

Leah Alter [00:16:12]:
But yeah. It it it felt forced. It felt like I'm kind of in a in a situation where I have to make a decision, at this point.

Joanna Ehresman [00:16:22]:
The discussion with Julie just still gives me goosebumps. And listening back to the episode, I just adored that conversation so much. And we can't wait to hear Carson is doing the women state of women and wealth management study again in 2025, and we are already working with them to make sure we're sharing those findings with y'all. So we're we

Leah Alter [00:16:43]:
can't wait to share more about that when it comes out. Absolutely. And speaking of insightful and relatable, for our next clip of the women in the industry sharing experience, we just had to share part of our session with Atricia Roberts from Curo Private Wealth. This was also one of my favorite favorite

Joanna Ehresman [00:17:06]:
So good.

Leah Alter [00:17:07]:
Conversations. I was so fired up after this episode.

Joanna Ehresman [00:17:12]:
Yes. Yes. Atricia joined us on women's share in July 2024. And first of all, she just has a super interesting career story, which so, again, listen to the full episode, but this particular portion is where Atricia shares, like, her very candid and just very clear and, I think, passionate response about change in the industry and why she's so passionate about seeing us do better as an or as an industry as a whole. So let's take a listen.

Atricia Roberts [00:17:44]:
And then when you ask about what I've seen change, honestly, I think it's been slow and it's been slower than necessary. I mean, because I think about 20 years ago, I was showing up at conferences as the only black female advisor in the room. There are times when I show up at conferences now as the only black female advisor in the room but what I have noticed is that there have been at least steps taken by many organizations specifically like the certified financial planning board is making a really big push into diversity and trying to introduce advisors from underrepresented backgrounds to the planning industry. So I do think that people are starting to wake up and realize that we've gotta do something different, to make the change move a little bit faster because I would love to see the next 20 years be very different from what the last 20 years has been.

Joanna Ehresman [00:18:35]:
Yeah. Well and I'm curious to hear what how did you get reconnected when so you said you moved. So you're in the DC area, Baltimore area. So how what was that connection like to bring you back to the industry?

Atricia Roberts [00:18:49]:
Yeah. So funny story and I think it probably goes into while I'm passionate about mentorship. But when I came to the area, it was originally with a job offer with a nonprofit, and I decided not to take it. Non profit is hard work. Right? It takes an emotional toll.

Joanna Ehresman [00:19:05]:
Yeah.

Atricia Roberts [00:19:05]:
And I was like, I miss I miss numbers. So I went back into banking. I worked at Bank of America, for a a few years and it was at Bank of America where I met the founder of of my legacy practice, and he was my client on the bank side. So he had no clue that I had had a background in Investment Management. He was in my office one day and he asked me, he said, Atrice, are you looking for a job? And I told him, I said, well, you're at my job currently. We're we're here at my current job.

Joanna Ehresman [00:19:41]:
I don't do this just for my I love numbers, but this is not a hobby.

Atricia Roberts [00:19:45]:
Right. But he did say he's like I really you know, and again I knew what he did and he was like I think I think you would be wonderful in this industry. You're you're so good with clients and it was at that point when I told him, I said well I actually have done that before. Right? I worked at Merrell. He had no idea before we had that conversation. He handed me his card and he said, if you have any interest in getting back give me a call. I said again, I was like, no, I can't do it. I won't do it.

Atricia Roberts [00:20:09]:
And it was actually my sister who was like, just call, what's the worst that could happen? And I called and he's got a charismatic per persuasive type way and I think it was probably less than 3 weeks that I accepted the position, put in my 2 weeks notice, and changed over from Bank of America to back to this industry and that was in 2017.

Leah Alter [00:20:31]:
Wow. And that was that was Bernie, right? Bernie?

Atricia Roberts [00:20:35]:
Yeah, so Bernie Wolfe. So the the current iteration of our practice, Anna and I is the merger of 2 firms. Of course, the one that Anne started in 2014 and then I am the successor of a legacy practice that Bernie Wolf founded over 40 years ago. So it was because of him that I was pulled back into the industry. It was a lot of his mentorship then that helped to build the confidence I needed to show up in the space because it had never been an issue about not knowing. Right? I knew theoretically how to be an adviser. I think what is important is knowing that you can do it, that you can be that that clients will trust you, when you show up in front of them. And I credit Bernie with coaching me and mentoring in that way to help develop the confidence I needed to be able to do this business and approach it in a way where I could show up and be comfortable authentically as who I am and not trying to tie myself up in knots to try to be something different.

Atricia Roberts [00:21:34]:
And he was very open and honest in saying, I think that you being different is an asset. And the sooner you see it that way, the better off you'll be. And I just began to embrace who I was and and what I brought to the table that was different from everyone else, you know, that clients had the opportunity to work with. So, it was definitely career changing but in a lot of ways life changing. Don't tell him I said that though. Because again it just it helped me not just from a professional perspective but even from a prefer a personal level to just learn to be comfortable in the skin that that I'm in. And I think women often sometimes we, you know, we wanna dim our light and we sometimes make ourselves smaller and I think learning to lean into being a woman and even lean into that femininity, right? If I want to wear a suit with flowers on it because that's the way I'm feeling today and it's spring, then that's what I'm gonna do. And I do credit Bernie with a lot of being able to provide me with helping me gain that confidence.

Leah Alter [00:22:38]:
Well, and they say too, right, the best way to love someone is to just encourage them to be a 100% authentically themselves.

Atricia Roberts [00:22:47]:
Yeah, I love that.

Leah Alter [00:22:48]:
And when that happens, whether it's in a personal or a professional relationship, you see that over and over again where somebody blooms into their full expressive self andand brings so much more to the table, again, both professionally and personally. That is I I I literally got goosebumps when you told this story, so, I love, I love that. Because the first story you told, I'm not gonna lie, I started to get a little choked up, it's like heartbreaking to to to hear stories like that, and I know, unfortunately, that your experience is shared by a lot of people in the industry, and, you know, thank you for coming on here and talking about it.

Atricia Roberts [00:23:35]:
No. Of course. Thank thanks for having having me and allowing me the platform to talk about it. And again, I don't feel I I I I love this business because I see the power in what we do and the change we affect in people's lives. And because of that, I think I feel like I need to be critical of it. Right? In the same way that you would discipline, you know, a child or someone because you wanna correct behavior. It is important to me that we call out the things that hold the industry back because there's so much more opportunity and so much bigger of a difference we could be making if we just as an industry opened our arms and embraced the diversity, not just from a racial and ethnic background, but even just allowing more women into the industry. I mean, Anna and I, as a woman led firm, we're still in the minority in this in this business.

Atricia Roberts [00:24:22]:
Alright. So there's a lot of there's a lot of change that still needs to happen.

Leah Alter [00:24:26]:
Yes. This episode was just so good. Teresa was so open and forthcoming and vulnerable really talking about this experience on a, you know, on a bigger platform like that. I think we all learned so much from her and her experience and that desire to to do better, like you mentioned. So that conversation, she also mentioned the certified financial planning board's diversity initiative, which was like a perfect kind of, foray into a conversation that we had with Terry Colson from RISE Growth Partners.

Joanna Ehresman [00:25:04]:
Yeah. So in addition to Terry's role at RISE Growth, she has been on the CFP board of directors for years and is the incoming board chair, actually, for the CFP board overall. So that was fun to celebrate with Terry, earlier in 2024, the announcement that she was the incoming board chair. You know, overall, she just has a huge passion for this industry, and she was able to share with us some of the data from the CFP board's actual stats of who's passing the exam and what percentage of, you know, CFPs are diverse and that sort of thing that actually helped to give us a lot of hope for the future of this industry. So let's take a minute to hear what Terry has to say.

Leah Alter [00:25:40]:
So you've held very senior roles, in your career across various institutions. So we'd love to hear your thoughts, you know, as you reflect back of your years being in the industry, you know, how far we've come and, you know, where you'd like to see things go, especially in regards to women in the industry.

Terri Kallsen [00:26:04]:
Well, I'll start with your last question first. We definitely need more diversity in the industry, and and clients expect it. Right? I mean, in every organization I've been in, some women only wanna work with men. Some women only wanna work with women. Some men, honestly, only wanna work with women and because they don't necessarily want the type of dynamic that sometimes happens in competitive situations. Right?

Leah Alter [00:26:31]:
Yeah.

Terri Kallsen [00:26:31]:
And so so men and women both have the opportunity to choose their adviser. So we need to make sure there's enough. And it's not just gender. It's personality. It's expertise. It's whatever you know, geographical preference wherever they are. There's many there's many combinations, but our role in this industry is to make sure that clients always have choice. And so it's not just because we wanna fill a quota, we wanna check a box, or we wanna make sure that everyone knows this is important.

Terri Kallsen [00:26:59]:
Clients expect it, and we as an industry need to respond. Now I think we're making progress. And, Lee, I'll just share. You know, I'm on the CFP board, and Mhmm. I love my work on the CFP board. It's all volunteer, but the CFP board has made this such an important component of the entire staff and the entire organization. They are paid on the number of CFPs in terms of diversity overall. And today, in, you know, in 2 2024, just in March, we just passed our 100,000 CFPs.

Terri Kallsen [00:27:36]:
So there's only a 100000 CFPs in this country. Like, that's shocking, isn't it? That's really low,

Joanna Ehresman [00:27:42]:
but yeah.

Terri Kallsen [00:27:42]:
It feels very low, but, you know, progress. Goodness. Progress. Yeah. And, about a third of all advisers today are CFPs. So that's progress, but you need to get more. But here's here's the good thing. 24% are women.

Terri Kallsen [00:28:01]:
So it's not where it needs to be, but it's better than the industry average. But there was a 12% increase in women in this past CFP board test. So so we are getting better at helping young people decide on a career, so that's where it starts. Right? And, you know, I have 3 kids, and when when their high school event said career day, I'll just be honest. My son, you know, had me come in and talk about my career, and then my daughters were like, well, could you talk about something else?

Terri Kallsen [00:28:36]:
They're like, what?

Terri Kallsen [00:28:38]:
You know, my my son was like, let's talk about CFP and everything. My daughter's like, like, maybe we could talk about all the work that you've done and, you know, this or that. And I was like, because we don't get people young enough to understand what financial planning, what financial advice, what investments are. There's some stigmas associated with it. So we're breaking some of those barriers, Leah, very, very early in life, and now we're seeing more come through. And then they're finding the the rewards of helping people achieve their financial goals. Yeah. And a lot of women really enjoy this because they get to a certain level, and they have more autonomy in their role.

Terri Kallsen [00:29:18]:
They have more flexibility. They have, you know, obviously, they have monetary rewards, but they also have the biggest reward, and that's helping families achieve their goals. And, again, that's what draws me into the profession. And that and I always am very careful about this. That doesn't mean everyone is wealthy. That doesn't mean everyone has a $1,000,000 of investable assets. What it means is they have certain goals. It might be around sharing their money through philanthropy or or, you know, paying for their kids' college or insuring their lives.

Terri Kallsen [00:29:50]:
The and whatever that is, we get to be a part of those conversations.

Leah Alter [00:29:54]:
I mean, with women like Julie, Atresa, and Terry in our industry, it really does highlight how many amazing women are aligned with the same mission of diversifying our industry. And I think a lot of times, we think we're out on islands with these, like, passion things, but, really, there's just so many of us that are aligned and are doing things that are, you know, moving the needle. And it just gets us so excited for all that's happening now and what's coming.

Joanna Ehresman [00:30:25]:
Yeah. That's so true, Leah. And I the future is so bright. Yes. We're you know, we've got a little ways to go as an industry or a long ways to go. Let's face it. But but, it does it does give me so much hope and optimism. And we also had a few guests in 2024 that were not necessarily in the financial services industry, but they had so many valuable insights to share that apply to women no matter what their industry, but in the financial services industry specifically.

Leah Alter [00:30:53]:
For sure. I mean, money is so tied to so many aspects of our lives that

Joanna Ehresman [00:30:58]:
Yes.

Leah Alter [00:30:58]:
You don't have to be in the industry to understand that concept. Right? So we were so excited to feature Shannon Schottler, who is a life and career transitions coach. She joined us to share about how to really navigate big major life changes, both for yourself, but also when you're working with clients who are navigating those big life changes. And we found ourselves, you know, nodding along a lot. So let's take a listen to that part of the episode with Shannon.

Shannon Schottler [00:31:31]:
And then the experimentation piece that I talked about, especially for my zingy lemon sorbet people. Like we gotta be in that mindset of I'm a beginner again, I'm doing this thing that I've potentially never done before, or it's been a long time. I am going to have to try some stuff and see what works. I'm thinking of initial consult that I had this morning where, like, that was the space that that woman was in. There comes a point where we gotta get out of the notebook and we've gotta get into action a little bit.

Leah Alter [00:31:59]:
Yes.

Shannon Schottler [00:31:59]:
And I think what underscores all of that is restoration. Always. All the time. I'm a huge proponent. Like, how are we making sure that we're taking impeccable care of ourselves and that we're coming into this transition work of letting go, reflecting, experimenting with a full tank of gas. It's really hard to get a car moving again if it doesn't have any gas. So how are you doing a great job of keeping gas in your tank? Sorry. I'll pause there.

Leah Alter [00:32:23]:
You're blowing my mind, Shannon. I think.

Joanna Ehresman [00:32:25]:
Well and and actually the last part of, talk experimentation. Leah, I have heard like, you were such a great coach to me about that or giving me advice around what came to mind is you'd say you can always make a different choice. Right? Like, when I was like, oh, we're starting this podcast and, you know, I'm, like, I'm just so change averse or, you know, just in this very in my head.

Leah Alter [00:32:49]:
Well, and I think too, like, when you can recognize that somebody is both excited, but also questioning or isn't sure about what that next move is, but you can tell that there's like, a little bit of lemon zest happening. Yes. Yes. It's like how can you hold space or create space for someone to be able to kinda work through it and talk through that. Right? So like, when I went to Joanna initially with the idea for this podcast, she was like, oh, yes. But then there was a lot of, oh, but wait. You know? Yeah. Yeah.

Leah Alter [00:33:30]:
And she had to, like, work through that. And rather than me be, like, here, let me list all the reasons why this is the best idea ever and you have to do it with me. I was like, okay. You know, take the time. Let's talk about it. Come back, you know. And when you give people permission to work through all of the things

Shannon Schottler [00:33:51]:
Yeah.

Leah Alter [00:33:51]:
Then they find the answers themselves without feeling like they were led there.

Shannon Schottler [00:33:58]:
Totally. Like, let's give some spaciousness here because they're messy, you know, and, like, it's not gonna be perfect. I'm thinking of my daughter is really in a season of baking. I have a 9 year old, you guys. And it's it's, like, beautiful to watch her be in the messy middle of, like, learning how to follow a recipe and read instructions. Like, it's gonna be imperfect. And so can we be really mindful about surrounding ourselves or being the kind of person for someone who's going through mess that is okay with the messiness, that is okay with, like, oops, honey, you put a tablespoon of baking soda in there. We only need a teaspoon.

Shannon Schottler [00:34:36]:
You know? It's, like, no big deal. Like, we'll figure it out. Can we surround ourselves with those kinds of people, and can we be those kinds of people for others?

Leah Alter [00:34:45]:
Yes.

Shannon Schottler [00:34:46]:
That's why I'm so passionate about this work to begin with because I think our like our whole world needs a little bit more of these, frankly, like life skills. Like, they're life skills to know how to let go, reflect, restore, experiment. And the more we have that, the more we can all be a little bit more compassionate with each other in the mess.

Joanna Ehresman [00:35:06]:
You know, I think that specific conversation, part of the conversation with Shannon is what really stuck with me the most in the last few months of the episodes that we have recorded, you know, of having this mentality of seeing life changes as experiments. That's been so helpful to me as a recovering perfectionist and long term planner. Right? That as I'm continuing my entrepreneurial journey and figuring out where I wanna take my career and even, like, with with the show. Right? Like, just bringing that mentality of experimentation and openness to what will come has been so powerful. So, Shannon, we love you. Thank you for being on the show.

Leah Alter [00:35:44]:
Yeah. If you all have not heard that episode, that one could be, like, a big game changer, I think, in terms of shifting your mentality, you know, and not getting bogged down into in those day to day heavy changes and how that feels. Reframing that is, yeah, it's a life changer

Joanna Ehresman [00:36:05]:
for sure. Yeah. Required quarterly listening for me. I'm like, go back. Listen to that. Totally. Remind me what Shannon has to say.

Leah Alter [00:36:13]:
Yeah. This has been so fun reflecting on some of these moments. And and like we said, there was there were a lot. So, if you've missed any episodes from 2024, go back and listen to them. They're they're they live there in, you know, forever, so they're always available to you. And while no one is sugarcoating the fact that we have a long way to go in the industry, it does feel like we're bringing more balance. And it it's just so encouraging and inspiring to see the work that people are doing to drive that change.

Joanna Ehresman [00:36:54]:
Yeah. And agree. Like, it's there's so much great work happening out there. And here on our show, I mean, we're just grateful to be doing our part and play our role in our little corner of the industry as we like to say. And, Leah, I just wanna thank you personally for a great 2024 and inviting me to be your cohost on the show. It's been such

Leah Alter [00:37:13]:
a gratifying part of my life, so thank you. Well, I'm not even gonna say you're welcome for the thank you, but it because it's more like a thank you for saying yes and coming on this journey with me. I just really, I know I've said it a 1000000 times, but I just it you were my cohost. So thank you for saying yes, because I don't know what would've happened if you said no. And thank you all for tuning in and listening and engaging with us here at women's share. It's because of you all that we continue to thrive and grow and we're so, so grateful. Thank you for being part of this community. Thank you for being the community.

Leah Alter [00:37:59]:
Well said.

Joanna Ehresman [00:38:00]:
With that, that's our show for today. If ours is a mission that you wanna share in, please subscribe to WomenShare on your favorite podcast platform. With that, I'm Joanna Erisman.

Leah Alter [00:38:11]:
And I'm Leah Alter, and we will catch you on the next episode of WomenShare.